Mods, bro. Modding cars, bro.

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa) 04/29/2014 at 09:43 • Filed to: None

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I've been furiously beating off watching videos of V6 cars with resonator deletes on YouTube and I've decided that there is no way I'm not doing that to my big 3.8 liter in order to at least overwhelm the engine noise with actual exhaust.

But there's a problem.

I don't have a welder.
Or a blowtorch.

How much of an idiot would it make me if I cut it out with a dremel or hacksaw (which would only take about 30 hours of work to cut through /s) then went to lowes and grabbed two feet of steel tubing and held it in with fiberglass thermal tape tightly wrapped? The only person I know that owns a welder is currently deployed somewhere-or-another so I'm not able to use it, but I'd love to have this done before I graduate next year so I can show it off to my homiez, dawg.

Coty > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:44

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This post needs more videos.

offroadkarter > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:44

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you know you can get exhaust band clamps right?

thebigbossyboss > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:44

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It would make you the aweosme kind of idiot.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > offroadkarter 04/29/2014 at 09:45

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Oh. Oversized hose clamps. That would definitely do the job. What kind of pipe is recommended to replace what I cut out? Just go to *insert local home improvement chain here* and get something with an inside diameter more-or-less the same as the outside dia. of the exhaust and rated for heat?

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:46

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First my old blazers with 4.3L V6's would like to have a discussion with you about big v6's.

Second. Please video this process because it sounds insane and I'd love to laugh at it later

:)

WolfmanJimCBW > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:48

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You can usually get some flexible exhaust pieces from a parts house.

Chris Clarke > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:49

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Get a real cutoff tool from harbor freight for $14.99 , Then buy some strait pipe from autozone and an exhaust clamp . Still ghetto, but a step in the right direction.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 04/29/2014 at 09:50

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My sister's Silverado has a 4.3l, but all the videos of "V6 resonator delete" are significantly smaller than 3.8liters.

Video? Definitely. My car is a mecca of ghetto engineering and duct-tape dreams that looks good until you grab a magnifying glass (so I keep magnifying glasses well away from my car)

offroadkarter > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:50

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find out what size your stock exhaust is first. You could either get a pipe the same size, put both ends inside the clamp and clamp it together or you could get a pipe 1/4" larger slip both ends over your stock pipes and clamp it down. If you live in the rust belt try to find stainless steel but if you have a hard time I'm sure you can get a few years out aluminized with high temp paint.

this is what you want

Squid > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:50

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A muffler shop may do the work for you for cheap. Plus there is a better chance that it won't have an exhaust leak. . .

RazoE > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:51

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But..but.. V6s sound like poo..:(

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Squid 04/29/2014 at 09:52

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But that's no FUN

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > RazoE 04/29/2014 at 09:53

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The delicious-but-very-quiet snap-crackle-pop when you rev mine begs to differ.

RazoE > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:55

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Just busting your chops. I love the way Grand Nationals sound. I can imagine yours sounds familiar.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 09:55

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hahahaha.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > RazoE 04/29/2014 at 09:57

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Next step: Go full MightyCarMods and get fake turbo and blowoff valve noises (joking JOKING please don't kill me)

crowmolly > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 10:00

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Shit, what have I done. LOL.

Preface: I *think* it's 2.25" pipe.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-6400…

Plus 2 of these

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-6932…

And put this

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/umi-8007…

On the bolt threads and OD of the pipes to make future work easier.

Summit may be cheaper than local places. I know they were for 3" pipe by a large margin.

crowmolly > offroadkarter 04/29/2014 at 10:02

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You don't want to take up 1/4" of gap. It will seal like shit. A better bet would be to get the same size tubing and make a slip fit using a tailpipe expander.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > crowmolly 04/29/2014 at 10:04

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Bah, that's much too professional. Obviously I need to do this with aluminum foil and PVC. Fire hazard be damned.

/s

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 10:07

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SAWZALL. It will be your best tool investment ever. Goes through exhaust pipes like butter.

Then get a 2' section of straight pipe from autozone and clamp it into place. Borrow (rent or whatever) a tailpipe expander while you are at it so you get a clean fit on everything.

FWIW I absolutely hate the awful droning sound the 3800 makes without a resonator. You will be ready to kill yourself after 30 minutes on the highway at a steady speed. Supercharged or stock? There is no real airflow gain to be had for a resonator delete until you are making a lot more than stock power.

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 10:09

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Not large hose clamps. Exhaust clamps. Big difference. If I were doing it the way you have implied, I'd just get some simple u-bolt exhaust clamps anyway. Use a tailpipe expander to make sure everything is good and snug first.

It's very easy to drop the whole cat-back out of most 3800 cars. Unplug the rear O2, unbolt from the rear manifold (if the bolts are any good), remove 4 or 6 rubber hangers and lower the whole thing down.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 10:10

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It's NA, but I'd love to swap in the pistons and top end from a S/C 3800. Luckily it's a Buick so it's pretty well soundproofed in the cabin and it has a great speaker system to drown out any droning if I don't feel like listening to it anymore.

deekster_caddy > RazoE 04/29/2014 at 10:10

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not even close. GN is a whole different sound.

crowmolly > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 10:10

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Less professional? Sure.

This:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-6308…

Attached with one of these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-6932…

And blow away everything behind it.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 10:11

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straight pipe, bro

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 10:11

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Hey, you can just take a coffee can, cut the ends off, slice it vertically and wrap the pipe in it and clamp it on. Who needs these fancy shmancy clamps. Oh wait, nobody makes coffee from cans anymore.

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 10:13

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I'm very familiar. Have two FWD lesabres in the family plus still work on my old supercharged '98 Riv. (and a RWD lesabre in the family) The Riv went to my brother. Has a ZZP VS cam, Gen V blower, headers and the stock cat-back. Please for the love of god do not take that resonator off and add to the long list of awful sounding cars out there.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > crowmolly 04/29/2014 at 10:14

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Then cut up what's left of the cat-back piping and use it to route the exhaust out the side because WHY NOT.

V8Demon - Prefers Autos for drag racing. Fite me! > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 10:15

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It wasn't a GM, but I had an exhaust done on the old 3.8 I had in my first Mercury Cougar (I've had the second V8 equipped one for 16 years now).

I kept the stock exhaust manifolds and put in a full 2 1/4" dual exhaust with high flow cats and glass packs. No resonator of any kind. Also, no balance tube/h-pipe. While the exhaust could have benefited power-wise by having one, albeit not much, I think it actually helped the overall sound by not having it. I have yet to hear a non-full out race car with a V6 that was as loud and it actually sounded GOOD. Under moderate acceleration through tunnels, it had a note similar to a radial engine. It wailed at full tilt. Loved it!

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 10:15

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No need to swap pistons - do a top swap from the L67 and bam - a high compression supercharged motor! Premium fuel and careful tuning required, but a lot of people do this reliably.

Freddy "Tavarish" Hernandez > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 10:23

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Why not just take it to a muffler shop and have them do it for $60?

wabbalosthiskey > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 10:46

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eh, loud != good ....

Roundbadge > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 04/29/2014 at 11:06

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The exhaust on my 4.3L '92 S10 was rusting through behind the cat, so I cut it off with a hacksaw. The sound was absolutely divine.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Roundbadge 04/29/2014 at 11:07

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Hahaha, I've rocked a couple of 4.3L S10's. the 88 was really hopped up, the 04 was bone stock.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 11:15

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I'm worried about the durability of the trans and pistons, given that they're both different on the L67.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Freddy "Tavarish" Hernandez 04/29/2014 at 11:16

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Do I seem like the type to do things the easy way? :P

Freddy "Tavarish" Hernandez > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 11:19

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Think of it as a time investment versus money investment, since only one of them is finite. Get the resonators deleted and spend your time doing something more interesting, like a supercharger.

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 12:25

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The L67's pistons aren't any better than the L32. Just a different compression ratio. Plenty of careless tuners have chipped L67 pistons. Plenty of top-swappers have very reliable high compression high performance engines. You just have to be more careful with tuning. There are stock SC and non SC blocks out there turning 10 second 1/4 miles.

No worries about the pistons. Worry about the tuning. If you don't have tuning experience, ask around and find a very experienced 3800 tunerThe transmission is a different story. If you want to make more power, you need to upgrade the input shaft, chain and a few other internals. There's plenty of information out there about making a 4T65E stronger. Expect to spend about $2500-$3000 for a solid performer. If you are gunning for 11s, you'll need to go better..

If you are going to the trouble of swapping pistons, just grab the whole L67. There are plenty in junkyards complete and that's a simple engine swap away from having the whole shebang. Check the various 3800 forums for a complete built motor and trans, or someone parting out a GTP. Just about everything drops in. The exception is the trans case - some did not have the right bolts on the back for the rear mount, if your Buick uses it. GTPs did not use it but most had the bolt pattern cast into place.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 12:37

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There's a 3800SII SC for sale in Tulsa for about $500. Now I just need to go diving through my couch cushions for $500 and enough money for gas to get down there, and I'll be good.

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 12:41

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Go for it! The complete swap is pretty easy. A stock trans in decent shape should be able to handle the stock L67. Technically it will start and run on your OE Lesabre's tune, but you'll want to get a tune on it fairly quickly (the injectors are different sizes, etc) You can probably send your info to Intense or ZZP and they should be able to send you a pre-tuned PCM that includes the basics. A custom tune is always better but to start out something that simple should be able to get you up and running. You don't need the wire to the BBV valve, so don't worry about it.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 14:03

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I've been looking at ZZP tunes and they don't list the LeSabre as an available model but I'm hoping they could get me started if I do get an engine. I'm hoping I could find a wrecked Gran Prix or something and buy the engine+trans+ECU off of it and then try to shoehorn it all in my 220,000 mile Buick body. I'm hoping to get a job this summer so I'll hopefully find myself with something resembling money later on.

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 14:28

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They may not list the tune (not "popular" enough) but I would bet they can do it. Hell I could probably do it if I can get a spare PCM for that car. I've got enough L67 tunes and an HP Tuners and an offboard. I've been tuning cars for years. Really haven't done anything long distance but I'd be willing to go for it. I have a spare '98 to '02 3800 PCM, I'm fairly sure you've got the same PCM.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 14:39

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2000 3800 Series II, it's likely. What gets changed in a tune to boost performance? Different mixture? More "energetic" transmission behavior (the stock map on my car is lethargic as hell)? Increase of unicorn farts?

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 14:57

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I'm sure I can find a stock '00 LeSabre tune somewhere, and I think it will work with the PCM I have. I'm pretty sure all 3800s from '98 - '02 used the same PCM. I would hopefully just need your VIN to stick on there. It's possible there is some VATS security learn procedure you need to do before it will run in your car.

Basically, you can fine tune the fueling for better WOT fuel mixture (OEM tune is overly rich too be 'safe') and if the fueling is good you can add timing in some spots (again OEM timing map is very 'safe'). Shift pressures can be increased, shift times can be decreased. Torque management in 1st gear can be reduced (unless you actually like your transmission). If your original trans has 200K on it I wouldn't go for anything too aggressive to begin with.

Other things you can mess with in the tune - correcting for different internal gears in the transmission (say you changed from 2.93 to 3.29 gears) and remapping the shift points. Individual cylinder injector skew (add 2% to cylinder 3, for example). You can rework the PCM to work with a different MAF sensor (one that reads higher, once you outflow the stock unit), altering the VE table so it can run properly without a MAF sensor (turbo conversions often need to do this), disabling certain codes (rear O2 sensor is popular to disable for high flow cat installations), what temp the fans turn on at... stuff like that and more.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 16:16

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Wow, that's really crazy. PCMs are about $500 or so for a decent one, right? Would one used to increase performance and let me supercharge my 3800SII also be used to help my dad's Passat TDI get better gas mileage? This whole thing kind of reminds me of the aftermarket Android ROM scene. Increasing the capabilities of hardware by modding the software.

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 16:56

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Typically a 'tuned' GM PCM of this nature is about $200. A PCM for your LeSabre would know nothing about your dad's Passat. Improving milage on a diesel is a whole different animal than milage on a gas motor. I do have a VAG-COM adapter and VW tuning software for our Passat ('08 2.0 turbo gas). I mainly bought that for two reasons - 1) I really really wanted to enable opening and closing the windows from the remote FOB, and 2) the dealer was going to charge a small fortune to install rear brake pads. You need a computer to command the rear calipers open to change the pads. I bought the software, dongle and brake pads for the same price having the pads done at the dealership would have cost.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 18:39

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Could a tune enable some software features for my car such as the automatic adjusting seats (I have power seats already) or the window-rolls-down-when-you-hold-the-unlock-key that were options on the vehicle originally?

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 19:37

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In the VW? Or the Buick? I don't believe auto-rolldown was ever an option on the Buick. I did enable that feature on our VW. I just searched for "vag-com enable auto window 08 passat" and found instructions on what settings to change. Engine tuning is a whole different ballgame.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 21:58

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Hm, I thought it was an option in the LeSabre along with auto-adjusting seats. My memory could be (and probably is) faulty.

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 22:01

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I think the 'premium' lesabre (Limited?), Riv and Park Ave had memory seats. The base LeSabre (Custom) didn't. - just regular power seats. Anyway, the tuner can't enable that.

As far as tuners go, most are able to interact with and modify the PCM, very few are able to work with other modules (BCM, LCM etc - Body control module, Lighting control module etc - usually separate units)

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 22:08

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The LeSabre model range is such a mess. I believe the only difference between "Limited" and "Custom" were what was included in the base model, and possibly whether or not there was a sunroof. Other than that there was a feature list approximately fifteen miles long that could include stuff like automatic seats, heads-up display, CD changer, heated seats (not sure on that one), rainsense wipers, electrochromatic rear mirror, etc.

I like drooling over the specs sheet and imagining how awesome a fully specced-out LeSabre would be with an SC 3800SII in it. Luxury, speed, tons of space, and reasonable gas mileage? Who would ever want another car?

deekster_caddy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/29/2014 at 22:10

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Too bad they never offered the LeSabre with the supercharger. You should definitely go for it, it will make an awesome sleeper. My mother in law has the '04 LeSabre. If she had any extra money we'd be supercharging it. She's got a lead foot and a speed bug... She loved my Riv.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > deekster_caddy 04/29/2014 at 23:00

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For it's immense size and interior space, it really isn't a heavy car. At least, not relative to modern American muscle. 2014 Shelby GT500? 3845lbs. 2000 Buick LeSabre? 3567 lbs.

I used the LeSabre as a prom shuttle last night, stuffing four girls and a guy into it (try THAT in your muscle car, Mr. Daddy-buys-me-everything!) and cranking up a mix of dubstep, indie rock, pop, and metal on the "Concert Sound II". Dubstep came on and I was asked how big the subs were I put in the car. Nope, stock speakers. I was also complimented on the enormous rear bench, and soft ride. I was joking about how soft the suspension was by rocking the car back and forth from the outside when one of the girls piped up "Wow, this car would be great to have sex in. Can I borrow it next week?"

This is quickly turning into a "jack off about how underappreciated grandparent cars are" thread but dammit it's just so PRACTICAL and AWESOME. And cheap. And there are *so many of them* on craigslist for <$6000.

Of course, I just realized that an SC engine would require more expensive gas. Argh, money.

artsohc > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 04/30/2014 at 17:08

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Dude, find an exhaust shop. Bet the guy charges you $20 to weld it in.